Some viable options

Observer Joined: 04 Mar 2008 Posts: 30 : Items

http://www.islandsproperties.com/properties/islands/pal-rox-is-501/index.htm

Observer Joined: 04 Mar 2008 Posts: 30 : Items

http://www.islandsproperties.com/properties/islands/pal-bus-is-511/index.htm

Administrator Joined: 01 Mar 2008 Posts: 191 : Items

Lost_in_Samoa wrote:

EliteMaster wrote:

Lost_in_Samoa wrote:

Have to have 5 posts before you can post a URL.

Lol ahhh. Then Post! Smile

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2

Ah Ah Ah Ah

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Ahhh Ahhhh Ahhhh Ahhhh

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Ahhhh Ahhhh Ahhhh Ahhhh

5

Ahhhhh Ahhhhh Ahhhhh Ahhhhh Ahhhhh

Did I say "spam" or "post"? Razz

Observer Joined: 04 Mar 2008 Posts: 30 : Items

EliteMaster wrote:

Lost_in_Samoa wrote:

EliteMaster wrote:

Lost_in_Samoa wrote:

Have to have 5 posts before you can post a URL.

Lol ahhh. Then Post! Smile

1

2

Ah Ah Ah Ah

3

Ahhh Ahhhh Ahhhh Ahhhh

4

Ahhhh Ahhhh Ahhhh Ahhhh

5

Ahhhhh Ahhhhh Ahhhhh Ahhhhh Ahhhhh

Did I say "spam" or "post"? Razz

How dare you call my impersonation of the "Count" from Sesame Street spam.

Very Happy

Administrator Joined: 01 Mar 2008 Posts: 191 : Items

Ok Back to the topic... Very Happy

Posted: Mon Mar 10, 2008 10:21 pm

Region Nova Scotia, Canada
Price CAD $3,500,000
Status for sale
Size 988 acres <------
Location Queens County, southern Nova Scotia, 2 hours from the airport in Halifax

This island is situated in the natural bay of Port Mouton, 3 km from the mainland. It covers an area of 988 acres, 75% of which are wooded. Some of the forest could be cleared to make space for an airstrip. A third of the coastline is gorgeous white sandy beach, similar to the beaches familiar from the Caribbean. A mainland lot is included.

Mouton Island has the best and the mildest Atlantic clima¬te due to the influence of the Gulf Stream with temperatures between 18° and 30° C from May to October. Moreover, this unique jewel of natural beauty has two small freshwater lakes and ample drinking water.

Mouton Island is the largest private island on the east coast of the American continent. The island lies 43° north is only 15 minutes from the town of Liverpool, which offers everything for your personal needs: a hospital, doctors, chemists, hardware stores, supermarkets, pubs, a disco, a theatre, Shops and more.
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My only question, I guess you would be governed by Canada? That's the only thing about buying any Island. To be free and independent of any Nation, state, province etc. That might be a big problem.
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http://www.privateislandsonline.com/mouton-island-nova-scotia.htm

Outsider Joined: 07 Mar 2008 Posts: 58 : Items

LongWong wrote:

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My only question, I guess you would be governed by Canada? That's the only thing about buying any Island. To be free and independent of any Nation, state, province etc. That might be a big problem.
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Over the years canada has lost quite a few claims of sovereignty, and frankly I would be surprised if we used the legal framework of canada to seprate that they would try to stop us; however, being in proximity to America is always a dangrous poltical move IMO.

Observer Joined: 04 Mar 2008 Posts: 30 : Items

[quote=---------------------------------------------------------------------------
My only question, I guess you would be governed by Canada? That's the only thing about buying any Island. To be free and independent of any Nation, state, province etc. That might be a big problem.
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[/quote]

IMO it's kinda a moot point. I see the posts on this board where people want this style of govt or that language. It doesn't really matter.

Living on an island is being separated from the mainstream of society. You are pretty much left alone to do what you wish.

So who cares if we are anarcho-capitalist? Who cares if our official language is English.

I think we are going to be too preoccupied with the nuts and bolts of surviving to worry about such esoteric topics as "style of government".

What does matter is how much in tribute we are going to have to pay the neighboring nation for the privilege of being left alone.

And pay we will have to. Research the other attempts at micro-nations. Tonga in specific.

Our opportunity to become sovereign in my opinion will come only after we have truly established ourselves on the island. And then only during some global crisis like "peak oil" or "USD hyperinflationary monetary collapse".

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I liked the place you found. Judging by the photo graphs I'd say that 600 or so acres are use-able for habitation.

The fact that it has two lakes and fresh water sources means we can setup a small scale hydro electric plant. Probably not enough to service all the households. But you never know. Certainly there is enough hydro-electric power to run the construction machines we will need.

Besides after living in the jungle for the last 6 years I can tell you that electricity is not all it's cracked up to be. There is a lot more to life than xbox's, ipod's, and the internet.

Winters will be long and harsh. Each household will have to put back a considerable supply of food each year. That means an agrarian lifestyle. Serious gardening at the family level.

Large scale livestock is probably out of the question. Not enough cleared land to put in hay for the winter months. But smaller scale animal husbandry should work. Goats, rabbits, etc.

Your choice is very do-able.

Outsider Joined: 07 Mar 2008 Posts: 58 : Items

Lost_in_Samoa wrote:

see the posts on this board where people want this style of govt or that language. It doesn't really matter. ...
What does matter is how much in tribute we are going to have to pay the neighboring nation for the privilege of being left alone.

So what in your mind are the first things we have to get organized?

I mean beyond the basic: picking of a island, growing our numbers, raising the funds, and figuring out tribute, move & build costs.

Administrator Joined: 01 Mar 2008 Posts: 191 : Items

conostrov wrote:

Lost_in_Samoa wrote:

see the posts on this board where people want this style of govt or that language. It doesn't really matter. ...
What does matter is how much in tribute we are going to have to pay the neighboring nation for the privilege of being left alone.

So what in your mind are the first things we have to get organized?

I mean beyond the basic: picking of a island, growing our numbers, raising the funds, and figuring out tribute, move & build costs.

I think he prioritizes location above all.

Observer Joined: 04 Mar 2008 Posts: 30 : Items

EliteMaster wrote:

conostrov wrote:

Lost_in_Samoa wrote:

see the posts on this board where people want this style of govt or that language. It doesn't really matter. ...
What does matter is how much in tribute we are going to have to pay the neighboring nation for the privilege of being left alone.

So what in your mind are the first things we have to get organized?

I mean beyond the basic: picking of a island, growing our numbers, raising the funds, and figuring out tribute, move & build costs.

I think he prioritizes location above all.

I think that we should be doing two things at this stage.

1.) Defining our criteria for the island's physical terms. Then scouring all of the available sources for islands that may meet this criteria.

My reasoning for putting this first is that the physical environment will define most of the things that have been debated.

Why call it Liberty island if it is already on all the charts as Turtle island? What bearing does the name have on anything of practical consequence? So why waste the effort debating this?

The physical environment will decide our population. Which in turn will decide the beginning roots of our organization or government. An island that has a population of 300 does not really need to be a republic. An island with a population of 300 does not really need any form higher than a village council.

So debating what kind of government we will have is a very high minded, gratifying waste of time.

The physical environment will play a major role in deciding what type of economy we have. As much as we would like to be a "Tax shelter haven of freedom", recent precedents in international law teach that it is not likely to happen. And it certainly will not happen in the first decade of our living on the island.

The geographical location of our island nation will play even a larger role in deciding what type of economy we might have. So speculating on what type of "diverse economic powerhouse" we are going to build is futile until we know where we are going to be at.

I will give you a real world example.

The island I live on now is so remote and isolated that they cannot start a profitable tourism industry. It's too expensive to get here. They've paid out millions of dollars to consultants and agencies to try to kick start a tourism industry, and it still won't get off the ground. And this island does have the "tropical Polynesian paradise" goods to market. The distances are just too great. Its not profitable for the cruise liners to come here. Travel agents avoid the place because the cost to fly here is larger than the cost of other entire vacation packages.

So attempting to define our economy, which in my mind is something that should by all indications evolve, is a waste of effort. A pipe dream.

Let's roll up our sleeves and focus on the real mechanics of obtaining a piece of real estate to inhabit.

2.) Defining our criteria for residents of the island. Then scouring all of the available sources for those potential residents.

This will be a sore topic with everybody but I'll put it out there.

Every year my island imports twenty or thirty young, fresh accountants and lawyers on contract. These people are promised the "come live and work in paradise" gig.

When they get here they are stunned by the beauty and laid back lifestyle ............ for about 6 months.

Once the novelty wears off they start noticing that it is not very convenient or cheap to live on an island. In fact it is expensive as hell.

And they notice that you cannot get parts for your stuff that dies because it's constantly 90 -> 100 degrees with 90 -> 100 percent humidity.

Every piece of leather you own melts with mold. You develop a case of crotch rot that panics mainland ICU staff. The meat between your toes starts coming off in chunks when you take your socks off. Your watch stops because salt from the humidity has crystallized inside of it and played hell with the works.

Then the local flora and fauna start in on them.

Dengue fever is a lovely way to spend your time. Talk about guaranteed weight loss!

Centipedes that are a foot long.

Rats that are the size of alley cats.

Termites that burrow through solid poured concrete to get into your stuff.

Gecko lizards who are shit bombardier's of peerless skill. If you don't cover it with a sheet it will be plastered with lizard droppings by the time you come home. Ever want to brush your teeth with a toothbrush that has been anointed by the house Gecko's ?

That puts "paradise island" living into a whole new perspective.

Not to mention the fact that there is a better than 50/50 chance that there are no replacement toothbrushes to be found.

After about 8 months they are sick up to their eyeballs of "paradise" and chomping at the bit to leave.

Very, VERY few actually finish their contracts. Most get pissed off, pay their penalties and leave early.

The point of this is that not everyone is cut out to live in isolation. Matter of fact VERY few people are. And everybody wants to. At first.

So how do we find a group of people who are really interested in, and CAPABLE of, living on an island?

What are our recruiting standards? Do we accept anybody?

Do we look for people who have a conservative mind set? Do we look for people who have a liberal mindset? Do we look for people who have a socialist / welfare state mind set? How do we tell the difference between the types?

Do we limit our recruiting to identified skill sets? What skill sets do we need?

How do we deal with a prospective resident who obviously can't make it living isolated on an island?

Money. Can anybody live on "liberty / turtle island"? Do you have to buy your way in? How much? ( This ties back into location and size). What kind of contracts will we need?

These are all prospective resident questions that need to be dealt with.

There are a plethora of "real world" things to discuss about this idea.

So I'm sorry if I sound like a bummer. But I really want this to happen and I do not like to waste resources. I consider idle debate over esoteric topics a phenomenal waste.

my 2 cents.

Outsider Joined: 07 Mar 2008 Posts: 58 : Items

Lost_in_Samoa, I very much agree with much of what your saying. Some of your own points I think though can be enhanced by high-minded thinking in a less direct way.

My comments:

Quote:

1.) Defining our criteria for the island's physical terms. Then scouring all of the available sources for islands that may meet this criteria.

I was wonder myself why we have yet had any posts(I have seen) defining our ideal criteria for the island's physical characteristics. This is an obvious must. I'll get looking and make my own soon, if none appear.

Quote:

2.) Defining our criteria for residents of the island. Then scouring all of the available sources for those potential residents.

A great point, the umbrella is so huge. That is one heck of a issue to tackle though, how would we effectively go about doing that? I wouldn't even know where to start.

Quote:

Why call it Liberty island if it is already on all the charts as Turtle island? What bearing does the name have on anything of practical consequence? So why waste the effort debating this?

To me, it is a marketing tool more than anything. How can we attract the right people without a name that can be stood behind. Might see trite, but it certainly has an impact. In reality I suppose, the name will likely be more practically defined.

Quote:

The physical environment will play a major role in deciding what type of economy we have. As much as we would like to be a "Tax shelter haven of freedom", recent precedents in international law teach that it is not likely to happen. And it certainly will not happen in the first decade of our living on the island...So speculating on what type of "diverse economic powerhouse" we are going to build is futile until we know where we are going to be at.

I agree the role is key, however I can't stress enough that in my experience basing economics, personal or commercial, on your geological assets is a common and huge mistake( for a prosperous future that is sustainable).

We perhaps don't need to debate the theories of economic governing systems, but we do need to think about the problems of economics and coordinating alternatives for the pioneers from the start, otherwise prosperity is out of the question.

If we just pick an island and go for it, our trade will be very limited(there is no way around that), yet if we could coordinate businesses that can be adapted to the island we end up picking. This will offer multiple streams of trade that with any luck will bring an auto-catalytic growth we can exploit. As well we can help fund and unify the members of this project pre-island that way.

Quote:

The island I live on now is so remote and isolated that they cannot start a profitable tourism industry. It's too expensive to get here. They've paid out millions of dollars to consultants and agencies to try to kick start a tourism industry, and it still won't get off the ground. And this island does have the "tropical Polynesian paradise" goods to market. The distances are just too great. Its not profitable for the cruise liners to come here. Travel agents avoid the place because the cost to fly here is larger than the cost of other entire vacation packages.

So attempting to define our economy, which in my mind is something that should by all indications evolve, is a waste of effort. A pipe dream.

Let's roll up our sleeves and focus on the real mechanics of obtaining a piece of real estate to inhabit.

And that is preciously why I for one am so big on talking diversity and not just setting up a big single entity organization. The simple truth is a lot of the ventures just can't work (even if we do know the islands pros and cons, as in your example), but by promoting, generating and supporting an array of ideas on meeting economic challenges, we will promote a diverse group of pioneering startups, some of which might take off and hopefully fuel growth.

Quote:

This will be a sore topic with everybody but I'll put it out there.

Every year my island imports twenty or thirty young, fresh accountants and lawyers on contract. These people are promised the "come live and work in paradise" gig.

When they get here they are stunned by the beauty and laid back lifestyle ............ for about 6 months.

Once the novelty wears off they start noticing that it is not very convenient or cheap to live on an island. In fact it is expensive as hell.

And they notice that you cannot get parts for your stuff that dies because it's constantly 90 -> 100 degrees with 90 -> 100 percent humidity.

Every piece of leather you own melts with mold. You develop a case of crotch rot that panics mainland ICU staff. The meat between your toes starts coming off in chunks when you take your socks off. Your watch stops because salt from the humidity has crystallized inside of it and played hell with the works.

Then the local flora and fauna start in on them.

Dengue fever is a lovely way to spend your time. Talk about guaranteed weight loss!

Centipedes that are a foot long.

Rats that are the size of alley cats.

Termites that burrow through solid poured concrete to get into your stuff.

Gecko lizards who are shit bombardier's of peerless skill. If you don't cover it with a sheet it will be plastered with lizard droppings by the time you come home. Ever want to brush your teeth with a toothbrush that has been anointed by the house Gecko's ?

That puts "paradise island" living into a whole new perspective.

Not to mention the fact that there is a better than 50/50 chance that there are no replacement toothbrushes to be found.

After about 8 months they are sick up to their eyeballs of "paradise" and chomping at the bit to leave.

Wow, I definitely personally forgot about little things like those Surprised

. Certainly another reason to be keeping myself somewhat slow moving on any long-term relocation away from the nice and simple north.

Do you think there is a way to address these kind of things by design? Or is it just one of those things that is a fact of island life, and you get use to it?

Quote:

Very, VERY few actually finish their contracts. Most get pissed off, pay their penalties and leave early.
The point of this is that not everyone is cut out to live in isolation. Matter of fact VERY few people are. And everybody wants to. At first.

Which is exactly why in my estimate at least some businesses on the island need to be designed from the get-go as international in nature (starting now), giving people the option to return to home nations yet stay connected to and in support of the project.

Quote:

So how do we find a group of people who are really interested in, and CAPABLE of, living on an island?

I don't know, but I'd be happy to help them raise money and become prosperous, whoever they are...

Quote:

What are our recruiting standards? Do we accept anybody?

A good question, why does this not have its own thread?

Quote:

How do we deal with a prospective resident who obviously can't make it living isolated on an island?

Let them be connected in other-ways. Community is 1/3 of a nation-state.

Quote:

Money...Do you have to buy your way in? How much? ( This ties back into location and size). What kind of contracts will we need?

I am confident, if we can find the people, I can help in coordinating it that they all can get to the island in a comfortable and secure manner, and are protected from all forces outside coercion. Anything costs money, but I am confident there will be supplementary support for the right people (at least if I have anything to do with it). Defining who we need is key though, and for that I have no idea, I have never lived on an island or in the developing world.

Quote:

These are all prospective resident questions that need to be dealt with.

I agree, but lots of these questions are out of our expertise...island life is a big '?' for people like me, and thus I encourage you to make a post detailing from your experience some key positions we will needed to get filled to have a somewhat comfortable island living.

Quote:

So I'm sorry if I sound like a bummer. But I really want this to happen and I do not like to waste resources. I consider idle debate over esoteric topics a phenomenal waste.

I for one didn't take you that way, and I am with you 100% in those objectives.

Observer Joined: 04 Mar 2008 Posts: 30 : Items

Well the problem with debating high minded ideals is that everybody loves to debate, and they like to win. In the end most debates devolve into pissing contests over semantics.

And as you noted above "the devil is in the details".

So I propose a different approach. Locational brainstorming.

Meaning that we as a group take a physical island and work up the specifics of what we would need to obtain that particular island. What we would need to relocate to it. How many families could live there, on how much alloted space. What skill sets would be critical. etc. A feasibility study if you will.

Once a final consensus is reached, we chose another island and do a feasibility workup on it.

After enough studies we should be able to ascertain accurately the most common of needs, the viability of the island, the specifics of any particular island, and a wealth of other details.

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As to residents ........

Well in my opinion the largest source of potential supporters will be located first on the Survivalist boards, Then on the Ex patriot boards, Then on the Political activist boards.

I do NOT think that a general advertisement should be posted in these places.

A general advertisement will attract WAY too many trolls, doom sayers, freaks, kooks, long haired leaping gnomes, and people whose only desire is to disrupt and belittle our ideas.

I think we should lurk on other boards and read posts to discover potential board members. Then quietly approach those candidates in attempt to enlist them.

Outsider Joined: 14 Mar 2008 Posts: 79 : Items

I strongly favor Nafsika Island... It doesn't carry the baggage other islands do (especially boipepa) and is still relatively cheap. It's in a relatively stable area and is close to "friendly" nations.

(edit: Would this island become a Greek municipality??)

Observer Joined: 10 Mar 2008 Posts: 5 : Items

I wonder if rather than simply looking at pictures and prices we should take into account what possible natural resources could be in the area. I mean if we happened across a place that had, say, high potential for oil or diamonds (or anything else) it could really help jump start the island in it's early days and help develop an infrastructure and investor base faster... just a thought